Within the next year or so, LL will be essentially breaking all 1.23 and snowglobe based viewers with features they are rolling out in their Viewer 2 which won't work in 1.23 and snowglobe viewers. Because of this, and because we want our users to be able to take advantage of those new features we will be starting up a second viewer called Firestorm Viewer.
Our Firestorm Viewer will have all the features the LL viewer 2 has, plus we will be moving our features from Phoenix Viewer into it. So our users will get the best of both worlds. Moving to V2 codebase is a must because of the inevitability that 1.23 and snowglobe based viewers will no longer work in the not so distant future, including Phoenix. Our primary focus for Firestorm will be with making some big changes to the UI in the hopes of making it as familiar to our users as possible. We won't be able to make it look exactly like the Phoenix interface but we will do our best to make it look and function closely to what you are used too.
We will continue development of the Phoenix Viewer until it no longer works, but will be dividing our efforts between Phoenix and Firestorm viewers. This means you will see less frequent releases of the Phoenix Viewer but they will not stop completely.
We will have TWO viewers on the Third Party Viewer Directory when Firestorm is released, however we don't expect a solid release for Firestorm for at least 3-6 months. We have a LOT of work to do on it. To be clear, we are NOT forcing our users to use the Firestorm Viewer, however in time when Phoenix no longer works, we will all have to move to it.. or another V2 based viewer.
We have collected hundreds of emails resulting from our Firestorm Poll, listed in a previous blog post, thank you all for taking the time to send them. We will be using the results of that poll to determine what priorities we shall make in the development of the Firestorm Viewer. We will not be able to move ALL our Phoenix viewer features into it right away, however in time we hope to have all your favorite features in Firestorm along with an interface you will enjoy using.
Sincerly
Jessica Lyon
The Phoenix Viewer Project Inc.
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ReplyDeleteI will try again, can we please have wider numbers boxes or one less digit in edit, thanks.
ReplyDeleteAnd the cursor, when editing these numbers is too fat and clumsy, could that be changed also?
This is great news obviously, tho it's a shame that older viewers will become obsolete - LL's doing, not yours I realise.
ReplyDeleteOne request I would make for development consideration if possible is a portable viewer that will run off a usb drive - a nifty thing to have for various reasons, and some of the folks over at portableapps.com might be able to help too.
(I have a portable version I made of an old viewer, which has been quite useful on occasion.)
woo, many thanks. This is what we actually need since viewer 2 have some good features that looks hard to implement. And if we look into the incomming new features about mesh... Phoenix cant be a step back from that.
ReplyDeleteGood luck with the new project!
Sounds good to me. I dropped Emerald when V2 first went open beta because I preferred the UI. More "computer" less "vidya gaem". And, TPVs have been far behind on the GOOD updates LL has been delivering. (^_^)
ReplyDeleteI'll be hang'n out in Catznip for now and be keep'n an eye on this. =^-^=
I currently use Phoenix alongside Kirstens, Viewer 2.3 and others. I look forward to checking out the Firestorm viewer and hope that it compels me to use Firestorm as my main viewer going forward :)
ReplyDeleteViewer 2 has some good features... But I honestly find it ugly. I hate the new right click menus. I hate the new drop down menus. I honestly HATE that every time I log into one, it loads half of the last saved outfit I was wearing, and there's no way to NOT make it do this. I don't want to have to remember to save every freaking outfit, because some days, I change my avatar around a lot, and with the nature of SL... I never know when I'm gonna crash.
ReplyDeletePhoenix is incredibly fast, and stable (as viewers go), but sometimes sims go down, or my computer just overheats a little, or any of a million things.
I just want to add my thanks for your efforts you guys. Oh and by the way, your Large Address Aware build works great on my 4Gb RAM 32 bit O/S laptop. Keep up the good work, and don't forget, a lot of us really appreciate your including and really even helping to develop RLVa features.
ReplyDeleteViewer 2 has one great feature which is My Outfits - the possibility to change my outfit with a click... I can't live without it! Having my new outfit on I switch back to Phoenix. :)
ReplyDeleteIf Firestorm is going to be a Phoenix with My Outfits feature then it will be my dream come true!!
That's great news - except of one point:
ReplyDelete"We won't be able to make it look exactly like the Phoenix interface but we will do our best to make it look and function closely to what you are used too. "
What obstacles would make you unable to implement the usual Phoenix UI instead of one that might be still too similar to the fugly v2 one?
i share with a lot of the folks here V2 interface is fail..i know that by definition UI are subjective, but i honestly find it to be liek the new microsoft "ribbon" fancy looking and effed up to navigate. so as Gem puts it ..great news except .." lol so anything you can do to breach that gap GREAT ..also ..i miss megaprim support ..as a builder it was great help to temporarelly stretch prims to infinity to take mesurements :) ..ty and keep up the good work
ReplyDeleteIn the new firestorm viewer can you please make the local chat box and the IM boxes the same as the ones in the phoenix viewer? Please :)
ReplyDeleteIt is inevitable that the 1.23/Snowglobe based viewers will not be usable with SL as LL introduces features which will not be compatible with those viewers. I applaud the Phoenix team for looking forward to provide a V2 based viewer that can hopefully address many of the UI complaints that experienced users have.
ReplyDeleteviewer 2 from LL was not good i hated it i log on and i was in a new outfit and i was wearing huds that i was not wearing it was all messed up why i went on phoenix only trouble i get with phoenix everyone or just me crashing alot
ReplyDeletei hope firestorm will be better or i'm staying on phoneix
ReplyDeleteCongratulations on moving forward, it took you almost a year. I left Emerald when Viewer 2 came out, but I am definitely coming back to you guys when Firestorm is released. expect a new wave of Viewer 2 users coming to you.
ReplyDeleteHope it will be a toned down version of the SL v2 viewer. Otherwise I will have to trash both the desktop and the laptop for newer models. Its why I stay with the 1.23 viewer and the 1.xx Phoenix viewers. Just have to hope and see what happens. Kudos to ALL the Phoenix designers.
ReplyDeleteHi is there any test-viewer we can try? its great idea to make it as similar to recent version... especially the navigation buttons :)
ReplyDeleteI would love it if you could give the Phoenix viewer the chatbox look of emergence. The vertical tabbing system for conversations is much more user friendly, saves space and quite frankly makes a hell of a lot more sense. Thanks
ReplyDeletethe viewer 2 code wont force to adopt it's very much loathed user interface? hopefully not.
ReplyDeleteBigsteve, that happens because v2 and 1.* use a different attachment system, it's not hard to simply detach everything and put your outfit back on.
ReplyDeleteI recently changed to ther Phoenix viewer and was along time user of emerald. i'm glad to see the team back together again and working on what I'm sure will be a sure fire of a Firestorm viewer! Please keep up the good work and I agree with others that the pie chart works better then the V2 style.Your current features should be al inclusive in FireStorm as well.
ReplyDeleteGood Luck and Tally - Ho!!!
RB-BB
No matter what anyone else says please kill the double attachment points and use the LL multi attach system instead. It's a lot better and once everyone is using it it'll be great. No more selecting a new attachment slot and adjusting, just click on "add" and that's it...
ReplyDeletesome people who were using the double attachments may need to re-adjust their stuff but hey they'll only have to do it once.
Hi there, I just saw Qarl's prim alignment tool for TPV's ... are we going to get it any time soon in either Phoenix or Firestorm? It looks awesome!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.qarl.com/qLab/?p=66
I'm eager to see how Firestorm comes out. LLs Viewer 2 has some great features but I hate the way it handles clothing and avatar appearance.
ReplyDeleteI really despise that sidebar thing in viewer 2. I really hope you guys don't go with that.
ReplyDeletePlease incorporate the 1.23 style camera controls into it. I can cam around like a pro with it Im so used to it. Or at least make it an option. I cant stand the cam controls in the 2.X viewers
ReplyDeleteI would love to see an option to toggle the Viewer 2 style UI on or off. That way, people can pick the UI they like best, and still get the other benefits under the hood of their TPV.
ReplyDeletea very unnatural viewer 2 thing is local chat at the left side and im at the right side.. is it posible you bring it all back to the left in firestorm?
ReplyDeleteA for me irritating thing is the textcursor... In phoenix and other "old" viewers it stayed in the local chatbar while building. So you could chat immediate while working... in viewer 2 you always need to reselect the chatscreen that's annoying ;) maybe you could fix that too..
ohhh and camera navigation.. can't it be as before?
I quite liked V2 from LL but the thing that really made me move to Phoenix apart from the cool features you have is the fact that the V2 viewer search facility is clumsy and slow.
ReplyDeleteAt present, unless you want a free search, you have to press about 4-5 clicks of the mouse and wait for an HTML window to open to search which is slow. It would be nice to have a one click classifieds/people etc search in a V2 viewer such as firestorm. Thanks
I like V2 but i love the speed of Phoenix. If you guys can get those two things to co-exist, Then were all just fine and dandy. But there is one thing I would love to see is the Favorites bar for landmarks. It's just a great idea to have it for people to get around to there favorite places a lot faster than having to take time and look through there entire landmark folder. So definitely add that
ReplyDeleteWhat a shame Phoenix has just started now it's going to be replaced. With a V2 horrific interface and difficult walk and camera controls, not to mention the ugly V2 sidebar and profile. I hope not. Time to change viewers again? maybe.
ReplyDeleteIts not the first time that i see comments with questions....
ReplyDeleteWhats wrong with you guys?
There is a contact list (inworld too), so you can get your questions answered.
I doubt if your "viewer ideas-needs" are gonna be considered in teams project.
Always send personal message (inworld) or an email... So, you ll make sure that they ll take "your needs" more seriously.
(For example, when they asked from us to send email with our top 10 phoenix features, so they will be on top of the list for the firestorm project, you kept sending comments instead of emails ...)
I am looking forward to try the firestorm as i love the phoenix and even though I dislike the v2 LL has it does have a few good features but is a pain in the bunix with all the micro windows lol
ReplyDeleteThats great that you improve viewer all the time, but i really hope that firestorm apperance wont be the same as V2. Phoneix apperance is now easy and clear to use
ReplyDeleteAfter having issues logging in with the official viewer, I am so glad I stumbled across this site and downloaded Phoenix. Looking forward to Firestorm. :]
ReplyDeleteI would switch to Fire Storm most likely if they gave us the option to revert to the old interface/skins. Also, or customize certain features in it that we want to look like the Phoenix viewer. I really did not like the Viewer 2 Inventory Management at all.
ReplyDeleteI am currently using Marine's RLV 2.2 with the hiorrible 2.x interface for one reason only. The Linden method of multiple attachments and clothing attachments like tatoos.... I hated how Emerald did there with the editing to fit the new alt location and it never looking right to a non emerald/Phoenix viewer user. Hopefully this version of the multi attachment system makes it into Firestorm, if it does, sign me up!
ReplyDeleteG_blogger wrote:
ReplyDelete"Its not the first time that i see comments with questions....
Whats wrong with you guys?
...
(For example, when they asked from us to send email with our top 10 phoenix features, so they will be on top of the list for the firestorm project, you kept sending comments instead of emails ...)"
When I saw the request to send an e-mail about my favorite Phoenix features for Firestorm, I had no idea what Firestorm was and had no intention of stopping using Phoenix. If they'd told us then that Firestorm would be replacing Phoenix, I would have sent my requests, of which there are many. Now that they've explained why they want the info, apparently, it's too late to give it.
I'm looking forward to Firestorm for Mac though if it were possible, I'd love to see a menu button "Stop All Lag." I know that's not possible but the humour is well appreciated in-world. Phoenix has great features and I do hope that with the Viewer 2 assembly that we don't get the colour distortions the original beta testing LL Viewer 2 had or the disconnect between the keyboard inputs and an object in-world.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that I was hoping for, that I haven't noticed version 2.0 doesn't have, is the ability to switch between 2.0's UI, and the old UI, with just one setting change. I also really like the pie menu better than the drop-down menu for right-clicking, because its how I'm used to it. I also really like the avatar radar that phoenix has (or at least the radar sending the keys to channel and such, for usage by a HUD)
ReplyDeleteJust my opinion ok? But please just go ahead and favor releasing the Firestorm version and less importance on the Phoenix.
ReplyDeleteI love the older codebase but if it is ultimately going away anyway, it makes more sense to just make the newer viewer using the newer codebase more friendly, better features and less clunky then the awful Viewer 2 SL has going now. It takes twice as many clicks and menus to do simple things, it's got a clunky interface and it's just a screen real estate pig. So please spend more time on it as you can so when we all have to switch, it's more advanced then the current Viewer 2 :)
Just my opinion ok? But please just go ahead and favor releasing the Firestorm version and less importance on the Phoenix.
ReplyDeleteI love the older codebase, but, if it is ultimately going away anyway, it makes more sense to just make the newer viewer using the newer codebase more friendly, better features and less clunky then the awful Viewer 2 SL has going now. It takes twice as many clicks and menus to do simple things, it's got a clunky interface and it's just a screen real estate pig.
So please spend more time on it as you can so when we all have to switch, it's more advanced then the current Viewer 2 :)
I will use it for sure take care and congrats for the good job.
ReplyDeleteI like the Phoenix viewer, only problem is, can't use the "groups" and "all" tabs under search. I hope this is corrected on the new release as I am using Emergence cause of this & not sure how long that will be available. Bad news about Linden breaking out of the old viewer types as I don't much care for the 2.0 platform but figured it would happen. But glad to know and appreciate the news about Firestorm. I will be saved from Linden defaults. :P
ReplyDeleteI love Phoenix viewer for seeing clearer. As I am still a newbie, I know little about viewers and such, but I started on Linden's Viewer 2 version, so am better acquainted with walking and doing things on it. I am looking forward to your new Firestorm viewer! I hope it has the best of both. Thank You.
ReplyDeletePlease please no black boxes full of useless info cluttering the view and no sim info constantly in your face , lol been there done that and if i want to go bk i will use a land mark thats safely tucked away in my inv and out of site:)) ADORE the Phoenix, and the way we get around, easy for newcomers too:) fingers crossed and praying :)
ReplyDeleteYour download speed on Emerald went from 8mb to 5mb. i was not happy. I have a great connection, but as we all know, sometimes no matter how great, connections can be slow at times. Some of us dont have super fast computers. But with a good download speed of 8mb or MORE "10mb"! is great for keeping us in the game with not as many crashes or outfits are not loading can't walk without running into something the list goes on. having the option of more download speed is a must for most people I'm sure, because it certainly is for me. lets not forget the basics too shall we? This time?
ReplyDeleteI'm looking forward to the change, but do think about the problems people have with SL 2.x. For example, chat now appears in two places and that kind of sucks (open on the left, IM on the right) and you can't have more than one inventory window open at a time. Also, don't forget RLV support! :)
ReplyDeleteI'm looking forward to the change, I know viewer 2 will be good because you can watch youtube on a prim without asking permission if you rent land or a place that don't allow youtube tvs that if they want it that way. It will be a lifesaver so people don't have to spend lindens on one and can just watch things for free without asking permission as its built into the viewer.
ReplyDeleteI just want to say THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for continuing to develop and provide your far-superior viewer despite the things that LL does to make it difficult. I tried to use SL's viewer for awhile after my beloved Emerald was blocked. OMG, what a horrible experience. What are those people thinking?! Even after I finally figured out how to use the thing, it continued to just be annoying.
ReplyDeleteWhen is the eta of Firestorm to be released and will it have issued with Windows 7 as some of the ersions of Phoenix was having?
ReplyDeleteI very much look forward to a TPV that supports MOAP and other future SL features. Having one that is also multigrid capable will expand the use of these features outside SL. This will give all of us who are a bit tired od LL much larger alternatives. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteI recently tried the Phoenix Firestorm Preview 2 Viewer...and I now have hope for the future of SL. Yes, it still has bugs and oddities and incomplete features...but it is a far better viewer to transition with away from SLV 1.x than SLV 2.x has been. I understand that LL is now considering using some of the design elements from Firestorm in order to help make thier own viewer more usable for legacy SL users. Good job Phoenix Firestorm team ! I can't wait to try the Beta !
ReplyDeleteAfter attempting unsuccessfully to adjust the new V2 viewer setting beyond minimal, I gave up and thought I'd lost my projects as well as holdings in-world.
ReplyDeleteThen I tried the Firestorm viewer yesterday ... wow ... many thanx for a fantastic and amazingly stable experience .... my main viewer from now on !
Awesome it is yes, and not too bad on the usual faults of LL's viewers as I've got software and that exceeds the reccommeded settings and LL's viewer hasn't been able to Login since 2.1 beta on it. Thanks to Jessica and the Phoenix/Firestorm team!
ReplyDeletei use phoenix viewer a lot and i have to say that phoenix Vs. firestorm when it comes to Community Combat System leveling up, phoenix by far outruns firestorm in giving the web page and all that.
ReplyDelete