For the first time ever we are releasing two viewers at the same time. We'll talk about Firestorm FUI first.
Firestorm FUI Beta 4.0.1.27000
Firestorm FUI Beta has a completely new interface which is a hundred times more flexible than previous versions. We've even included an incredible V1/Phoenix skin which hasn't been seen on any V2 viewer until now. We also feel it has better performance and stability than our previous Firestorm builds and hope you enjoy it!
Check out the video first!
We made a video to give you an idea of what you can do with this new interface and especially encourage Phoenix users to have a watch of the video before you update your Phoenix viewers. We think you just might want to switch to this Firestorm FUI after watching it. http://youtu.be/QYaf2NZZmIE
Change log can be found HERE
Important Phoenix Viewer Update 1.6.1.1691
This is a VERY important update!
Most important in this release and a reason you really all need to update is because in version 1600 we missed a very important inventory folder icon for Direct Delivery. LL will be enabling this feature on March 21st and without this update you're inventory window will become "Visibly" broken.
As well as falling into compliance with LL's new Policy changes, this update goes out with some very important changes, fixes and improvements including the V2 inventory fetch system which makes inventory fetching much faster and more reliable.
Change log can be found HERE
Support note: Please be aware that because we are releasing TWO viewers at the same time our Support team is going to be extremely busy. If you have problems please search our wiki for answers before contacting support. Most of the answers you get from support can be found on our wiki. http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com
Sincerely,
The Phoenix/Firestorm Team.
phoenix wont load for me to install but firestorm does..im on windows 7 strange
ReplyDeleteYeaaaaaah great job,great job,great job!Thankyou STAFF...I try new FF 4 tomorrow,i love flexible UI so much!
ReplyDeleteNice work!
ReplyDeleteLL is gonna be embarrassed from this amazing work.
The new FF installer needs to get back it's language selection option -_- I am using catalan LIP and it automatically install it in some language I don't know ( I use viewer in english). ijs
ReplyDeleteAgreed! It forces me to use the Danish version, I am Swedish so I understand most of it, but I prefer the English version which I cannot find.
Deletehave u guys added any options for 'add layer' in phoenix?
ReplyDeleteHave u guys tested IM windows on V3/hibrid settings? It shows up sunk on bottom right, i cant find how to fix that. Plus the default chat is way up from its default point on the screen...please fix it...
ReplyDelete2700 crashing on star up. Did clean install. Is it my AMD again? I have 1G dedicated. Did a clean install. I wanna' seeeeee the FOOOOEEEYYY! Grrr! :/
ReplyDeleteI'm rather sad to see the sidebar go. It seems I'm the only person in the grid who actually liked it.
ReplyDeleteIs it likely to come back in a newer version?
I loved sidebar too.
ReplyDeleteWas scratching my head wondering where it went when I logged in...
Why couldn't it be an option?
Watch the video link she posted and u will see how to add/edit the sidebar
ReplyDeleteInstall window typo in the pheonix installer says 1.6.0 instead of 1.6.1
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ReplyDeleteThe initialization process took a really, really long time after first install but all seems fine now. It might seem as though your system is hung up, but give it time.
ReplyDelete@R0dz_Runo
ReplyDeleteNothing in the video showed how to add the dockable sidebar back.
Unfortunately I think it is well and truely done :(
I'm sorry, but this full FUI leaves me cold.
ReplyDeleteAs I feared the sidebar has been deleted without any announcement whilst people wanting the V1 look and feel get two complete viewers to choose from.
The sidebar fulfilled a purpose by keeping the clutter away and avoided having overlapping windows all over the screen (plus it was one click to swap between inventory and people etc).
The previous release managed to get FUI and the sidebar working side by side so is there any hope for it (or an equivalent feature to allow docking windows) making a return?
If not are there any other viewers still able to support it?
Clean install of Firestorm, Win7, 1gig dedicated graphics, but it stalls on initialising texture cache.
ReplyDeleteRemoved and reinstalled, same thing.
I see previous comments about it hanging first time, but how long is too long to leave it? I went away and cooked dinner, and it was still stuck there.
Fix the auto language selection at installation, it was in some weird language I dont even understand! LOL...
ReplyDeleteThis version still royally messes up when shaders are enabled. I thought you would have fixed it by now. version 24179 is the last version that worked correctly for me
ReplyDeleteClean install of Firestorm, WinVista, dedicated graphics, but it stalls on initialising texture cache. installer misses language selector and installs in Danish if I'm not mistaken,please fix this problem?
ReplyDeleteThanks for releasing Firestorm 4.0, the better performance even affects the temperature of my notebook in a very positive way. CPU Usage dropped from 80% to 45%.
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to see it on my gaming pc at home this evening.
Not for me! Mine went from 35% to 100%! I've never had slowdowns from Firestorm before until I upgraded to V4!
DeleteIf this isn't fixed and fast, I'll go back to V3!
I'm with you Shane! OMG I was blown away at how intensely it increased usage. Silly me even attempted doing some photography work, crashed my graphics card every time I initialized shaders and shadowing!
DeleteV3 NEVER did this! (Did hear a slight fix to de-select http textures, but still ugh)
Also so many of my friends are having bridge creation issues, voice issues, sounds in general not working...too many bugs for me. I'm going back.
The installer's langauge is in Danish??!
ReplyDeleteI'll wait for the english version even though I'm Swedish and can understand some of the words.
To follow my earlier comment about the hang on initialising Texture Cache, I reinstalled one more time from a fresh download of the installer, and had success.
ReplyDeleteWould like to second the requests for the dockable sidebar to be returned as an option though, the easy ability to switch between inventory, places, appearance etc was extremely handy.
Good news about the FUI, been coaxing my friend to try FS and this will make it easier
ReplyDeleteJust how 'Beta' is FS4? is it just the FUI part thats in beta, or the viewer overall? i.e. Is it ready to replace the previous release version and given to someone who's not a 'computer person'?
uhm is there a way to change the language?
ReplyDeletei don't understand Danish!
oopsie nvm, i spoke to fast
ReplyDeletei already found it :P
Like the new FUI release.
ReplyDelete1 thing. I am using just default settings. In private chat/IM both persons chat text is same color (grey). This is abit confusing. I thought before each person was a different text color. Please put that back in or tell me how to change that.
That's in your preferences, same as before.
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ReplyDeleteFirestorm seems to run fine for me, but is there a way to move down the icons for group chats and the message icon at the height of the toolbar?
ReplyDeleteThere is an option to display them at bottom right, yes. But for me they are still too high on the screen. Especially if many group chats are open,I find them very disturbing there.
Not a nice surprise for Mac users: **PHOE-3553 Mac - Cannot select VBO in Graphics Prefes** is still not resolved. Without VBO Phoenix is almost unusable on many Macs, like my Mac Mini i7 with a 6630 graphic card. If pre-1.6 versions are soon broken by LL changes to the inventory it's bye bye to Phoenix for many of us....
ReplyDeleteI don't like how they removed my skin w/ the sidebars I like having the sidebars and not to mention the ims do not stay in the proper place.
ReplyDeleteHello, I like this firestorm edition, I see the team probably fixing the official SLV antiergonomic uncomfortable gui, but unfortunetly we lost some v2 style good stuff... example tabs for inv, landmark, etc... better than new... and the biggest fault the navigation bar and favorites landmark in one line... ok, Iknow this is official ll idea not your fault, but I now very angry because this is an newbie like uncomfortable feature... the sl experience now wronger.. my words not too hard, too light... the firestorm team can fixing this idiot things? (and I resizing this bar for biggest favorites area, why lost my preferences in next log? aaand why can cleaning my trash? I say empty trash, and the next relog came back all purged items... aaaaand I have 2 trash :D)
ReplyDeleteif you have FS installed in danish change to english or your prefered language ---> the danish is in () Preferences (Indstellinger) / General (Generelt) / Language (Sprog) System Default (System Standard) change to your language and restart viewer - Done!
ReplyDeleteI like the new toolbars. It's starting to feel a lot like phoenix. I'd like to add 1 more feature tweak suggestions to the new toolbars. I used Niran's viewer for a little while and one thing I liked was you could align the toolbar buttons to the top below the favs bar. I know you all put in a lot of tweaks as it is, but just 1 more pls? :P
ReplyDeleteWhen is add Layer coming back to phoenix? This is important for wearing multiple mesh items. I love phoenix but will have to stick with cool viewer till this is added :(
ReplyDeleteChessie, adding clothing layers, tattoo, alpha will never be coming to phoenix. The code is outdated, and took a hack to get mesh into it. The phoenix skin on Firestorm 4 is quite dang close to what Phoenix is. No line separation etc with chat when conversation window closed. Love it. Great Job Jessica and team!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteFunny how there will be always a reason to complain.
ReplyDeleteMine is a simple one.
Start making a viewer to Open sims community as well.
Isaiah: Chessie problems the next:
ReplyDeleteonly one alpha layer allowed. If you wearing the mesh shoes, you cant wearing the mesh clothing.
yes Peeter, I know that. As far as I know, Phoenix will not be adding code to allow multiple clothing layers, tattoo, alpha and the like.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, this new Firestorm is the bomb.
When the feature to choose the next owner permission of created oobjetcs like Phoenix ?? Firestorm miss only this great feature for builder.
ReplyDeleteTY
Firestorm will not download, Windows 7 64bit I'm using.
ReplyDeleteGot the Phoenix ok.
Firestorm 4 FUI no appear lighting and shadows and phoenix too. Only firestorm release v3.2.2.24336 appear lighting and shadows. I guess Firestorm 4 FUI need to fix.
ReplyDeletethe search window seems to have exploded, with the botom bar taking up 3/4 o the window, and the web window extending outside the UI window.
ReplyDeleteAlso, sliding over the bar on the bottom to hide the small chat bar also hides the 'stand up' button.
The sidebar is gone that keep things from getting cluttered
ReplyDeleteas was one of most important features for me
but seems a
big focas to take what had been a great viewer and turn it into a linden viewer and trying to give it looks like outdated V1 that other viewers already do so well
Very sad to see sidebar go as was option many used and whatever the excuse is it was not needed to remove other then make viewer look like linden viewer
Did you do a poll to decide no one used that sidebar feature?
Disappointed phoenix is now under control of linden labs and is a puppet
The sidebar is gone that keep things from getting cluttered
ReplyDeleteas was one of most important features for me
but seems a
big focas to take what had been a great viewer and turn it into a linden viewer and trying to give it looks like outdated V1 that other viewers already do so well
Very sad to see sidebar go as was option many used and whatever the excuse is it was not needed to remove other then make viewer look like linden viewer
Did you do a poll to decide no one used that sidebar feature?
Disappointed phoenix is now under control of linden labs and is a puppet
the Post it to Profile feature won't work for me, even after doing a clean install,clearing cache,rebooting,etc. How do I fix this?
ReplyDeleteTo all of you complaining about the sidebar being gone. It's not the Phoenix team's fault. LL removed it when they changed to the FUI. There is really no option for Firestorm to keep it and still move forward to stay current with LL's features and fixes. You can get somewhat close by docking buttons on the right and sizing and positioning floaters appropriately, but the slide out/slide in behavior is gone. Once again, that's LL's doing.
ReplyDeleteI hate to complain, because the Phoenix team seem so dedicated to what they do, but...
ReplyDeleteI think I generally had a more fun a year ago with Firestorm (with less features and a 7-year-old computer) than I have lately. And now my awesome new machine runs everything wonderfully... except FS 4, which won't run past the Texture Cache load. Software testing, guys? What the heck??
i have been looking forward for this release of firestorm and it does everything its suppose to be doing which is great. one point i hate though is the ims, i just dont notice the small icons on the top right of the window. even if i did revert to v1 style. i have been playing on sl from 2006 and v1 still rules! coughs.. anyways.. the thing that makes me not use this firestorm.. (and i really hate it couse who can live whit out double clothing layers?) is the fps.. i spend most my time in Kos which is a heavy populated sim with combat. i have a average of 5 frames per second with firestorm and between 10 and 20 frames per second on phoenix. if i use firestorm i can hardly walk.. let alone fight.. so... starts crying.. im gonna have to get back to phoenix... sighs..
ReplyDeleteLove the new FS and want to use it soon!!
ReplyDeleteI am dearly missing my piemenu; so I am really hoping that the next update for FS will be what we really need: fully functional Mesh uploads.
Constantly relogging is getting annoying, but the LL viewer is a nightmare to build with.
So as a builder I beg you: FS needs good mesh uploads more than anything else now :))
Ok, new Firestorm moving in the trash... If I just standing, talking, good and fast, but I trying driving, sailing, and the fps under 7 and unejoyable SL! The older FS stable, and without this problem... And this is not LL fault in code, because LL viewer without this problems, and faster than old FS...
ReplyDeleteGood bye FS4... Never see again!
Very good improvements in Firestorm! Keep up the good work!
ReplyDeleteWell I am sure I will get used to not having the sidebar. I understand it was LL who took it out of their code.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, Firestorm is still the best viewer out there for me and just wanted to say THANKS to the viewer team for all their hard work.
@Karl
ReplyDelete"There is really no option for Firestorm to keep it and still move forward to stay current with LL's features and fixes."
So why are people spending years of effort to retain a V1 viewer? Funny that it's ok to complain about V2 and wanting to retain V1 even though LL dropped it but V2 sidebar is "meh, who cares". It worked in the previous version of FS where the FUI stuff was first appearing.
"You can get somewhat close by docking buttons on the right and sizing and positioning floaters appropriately."
It's nothing like it unless somebody hacks a preference setting to move the right hand button bar out a window width and makes it so only one "docked" window shows at a time (and a fix so top aligned buttons don't clip the favourites and hopefully a slide in and out button, but that's can wait)
I'd have a play with the code myself but two of the required Microsoft SDK won't install...
(Slight rant)
Here is my problem with LL V3 and 4.01. It's been sold as the second coming with a "flexible UI", but the reality is all you can do is move a few buttons around and they moved dialogs and notifications again.
Big deal, old firestorm had the ability to hide buttons at the bottom and I never personally came across a situation where I wanted my buttons split into 4 different areas.
In exchange you lose the option to dock or undock windows amongst other things. Was that not flexible somehow?
And then we have the merged favourites, location and search boxes. Flexible would be like MS have had for years where you could choose to have two rows or one with a simple drag.
Again where is the flexibility in this flexible UI? Oh right I can move the buttons around as long as I want then centre aligned (though I note that firestorm managed to add button alignment feature which was missing from V3 ;)
(End slight rant)
I appreciate much of this is down to LL not being able to stick to a consistent UI, nor wishing to support their old users. But I was hoping TPV would support the V2 skins just as doggedly as they have munged parts of V1 and V2 codebases to keep V1 users happy.
I'm quite willing to assist if I can, but my C++ is limited and as I say, having issues with installing the SDK...
i still use 1.5.2.1050, do i need to upgrade to 1.6.1.1691 from this?
ReplyDeleteImportant Phoenix Viewer Update 1.6.1.1691
This is a VERY important update!
Most important in this release and a reason you really all need to update is because in version 1600 we missed a very important inventory folder icon for Direct Delivery. LL will be enabling this feature on March 21st and without this update you're inventory window will become "Visibly" broken.
Thanks for fixing the download of the latest Firestorm, I now have it, along with the latest Phoenix.
ReplyDeleteIs Forestorm meant to run at a lot lower FPS than Phoenix?
Phoenix crashes without anny reason,just closes,same ting with first mesh version of Phoenix,old one without mesh works like charm...
ReplyDeleteLoving Firestorm so far but.. One wierd issue. Sicne logging off last ngitha nd logging in today, all text in the inout boxes (chat bar, ncs, etc) has turned pink, and I can not for the lif eof me find where I can change it back to black.
ReplyDeleteAnyone got a clue?
I just downloaded and installed anew the current version of Firestorm, after having skipped a few (my previous installation was in december).
ReplyDeleteWell, I'm down to 4 fps from the 30 or so I had yesterday.
Great job. I'm off to try out Imprudence.
I wonder why all the comments about lower fps? Maybe it is a certain graphics card or something?
ReplyDeleteI did a clean install and am having no problems. I think it is a great release. Sorry to hear some are having problems.
My grapihic card 1GB, and good! Good with previous firestorm realese. good with official LL wiever, and now my fps very-very low if I try moving fast... And this problem have to much friends. The new FS code have problem, no others graphic card, or LL code...
ReplyDeletevery suspicious to me that I never read in this blog that "sorry guys we made a mistake, fix in the next upgrade" is always just want to make a mistake lindelab, or bad your machine...
Yes I too have a very good computer with a very good Nvidia card.
ReplyDeleteI recall when Phoenix came out better fps then one of the upgrades came and it went slow and we were given changes to make to Prefference settings, next upgrade all was ok. Think I read the issuers had played safe to avoid people crashing.
Where i can find the button called " Merchant outbox"? In Firestorm i found it under " me" but i prefere phoenix viewer..so the problem is that i didn't find the merchant outbox...
ReplyDeleteHi:
ReplyDeleteBoth new releases for Firestorm and phoenix. are wonderful except for the fact that the sound is very iffy..
some times there is no sound for the gestures but sound for the music and typing sounds etc.. Then after a while the sound may suddenly return.. I have fiddled with all the stuff in Prefs and my computer, but I have the same problem on my laptop and my desktop which is just a couple of years old. some times there is sound. I cannot figure out whats up with it.. I repair Pc's have been an IT person for a large facility and so I know a little about computers and software. maybe you can help me??? Otherwise I love it!!!!!!
Please bring back the sidebars, they made things so much easier:(
ReplyDeletePlease bring back the sidebars, they made things so much easier:(
ReplyDeleteInteresting to see so many people wanting the side bar back when at one time that seemed to be what everyone hated. Like they say, you never know what you've got 'till it's gone.
ReplyDeleteRunning FS and Ph on the same machine with no issues. I must be lucky. I did remove about 4 other viewers and the old versions of FS and Ph followed by a "deep cleaning" to remove all the left behind bits and pieces of the old viewers followed by a cleaning of the registry and a restart of the whole machine before installation.
The only issues have been... On the fist run of both viewers it takes a few minutes for everything to load up (inventory, cache, etc.) and like one other person, my sound is also a sort of an on-again, off-again situation for some things.
The new FS has a much larger assortment of skins and ways to customize them than ever before, so I suspect those complaining about the new "look and feel" just haven't tried out all the options yet.
And, like many others, I have no idea why LL felt it was necessary to change the way items were received. After all, hadn't the Recent Items tab been working just fine for years now? But then we all know how LL likes to fix things that aren't broken.
Theres seems to be a hiccup or bug of some sort. When the new firstorm viewer is set to V3 and starlight CUI, if you right click the bottom bar and select 'fixed size buttons' the bottons all go vertical on the bottom bar and spread out over the bottom of the screen so you can click on more then 3 of them, its very odd.
ReplyDeleteFor some reason when i went to install the default language was french....which i changed to usa.
Also all my IMs seem to end up in the very very bottom right corner of my screen, under my toasts pretty much, so i cant see the IMs unless i pull the window up but it happens everytime.
SIDEBAR
For anyone who missed it. Jesica did a video on youtube on how to mimic a sidebar for the sidebar loving people.
Thank you for the update. Unfortunately there are so many options, so many preferences to be reset, and so many tweaks to be set to get the most out of SL that I found myself spending way too much time focused on the viewer instead of on SL. I'm going back to a more focused and streamlined viewer. I'll keep an eye on your blog waiting for Firestorm to stop trying to be everything to everyone and focus on being a great viewer.
ReplyDeleteThe mimic doesn't cut it for me, sorry. Its just not as useful as it was.
ReplyDelete@Emma: Agreed!
Some behaviours I have noticed with the sound controls is that they revert to default on every login for me, also the top navigation bar reverts to totally extended, forcing favourites on the skin I use, off to the side with a dropdown.
FPS are good though, and CPU is much lower.
hi
ReplyDeletewhat happened to the gesture pop up/scroll menu that used be on the bottom bar.
the gesture play/edit box is ugly in comparison.
(it includes deactivated gesture which i dont want to see and apart from name, chat and key columns)
(yes i do sometimes use them in clubs)
in other news
Okay i used to love the sidebar for half my buttons, but I can cope without it. The phoenix firestorm team cant keep 3 different viewers in development.
Folks, this is a BETA and FS 3.3 is pestering me to upgrade to a beta? Please fix it. That is really dumb. I downloaded this and it has serious issues.
ReplyDeleteAnd FFS, stop changing the UI with every release. It's like everytime I get used to the way things are arranged, you gotta go and rearrange EVERYTHING.
STOP IT.
@ Chatar ... ALL viewers are betas and they ALL have issues of one sort or another. This is SL and SL viewers ... whichever viewer you are using it is either an older less fixed beta or it's deprecated.
ReplyDeleteI love the new firestorm, only thing that i noticed that might be a screw up is gesture sounds don't play all the time. Some play, some don't, some randomly. Also other items in world with sound, now have no sound. But love it other then the sound fail.
ReplyDelete-Like the new look,however there are a couple of issues that i seem to be having.Firstly when building i cant seem to be able to see inside of the prim when doing a hollow within that prim,but used to be able to before all the tinkering started.Secondly,when logging out of the new updated Firestorm i have to keep 'ending process' from task manager to get it to shut down properly ?
ReplyDeleteI tried Firestorm just to be different for once and its not for me...I lagged severely...its back to the reliable old Phoenix for me!! Love it!! And have since it was Emerald !
ReplyDeleteI can't get used to the way Notices and IMs arrive in Firestorm the small icons at the top right of screen.
ReplyDeleteCan I get them to be nice and clear as in Phoenix?
ncedno gematereFS4 mixed up my outfits completely. Sometimes i get two of everything, sometimes it has a mind of its own and chages by itself, and, worst of all, it takes forever to rez. And crashes a lot.
ReplyDeleteMy mistake may have been to start the new install while the uninstall was finishing up.
be careful
ncedno gematereFS4 mixed up my outfits completely. Sometimes i get two of everything, sometimes it has a mind of its own and chages by itself, and, worst of all, it takes forever to rez. And crashes a lot.
ReplyDeleteMy mistake may have been to start the new install while the uninstall was finishing up.
be careful
tried out the last version, but yes, bugs, and bugs, and bugs.
ReplyDeleteFirst issue when i log-in, mostly become a message style "lindenlad detected a bad connection to the region you're in, we sorry" and my avi want load at all, i stay in cloud. Have then to jump to x an other region, change my outfit to rezz again correctly.
This has nothing to do with the region i'm in, i tried with my other viewers, and all works fine in the same places.
Also my outfit-folder is becoming more a junk-folder, it mix and match all my outfit like many other users said it before.
The interface looks more clear for me, ok, but bit tired to search with each version where the things are gone.
Hope there will be somme good fixes assap, or i will have to use mostly an older viewer, like phoenix, or the cool-viewer.
I look forward, hope the next days will bring a realy good fix ! ;)
FUI is a big let down. It has forced notifications and chicklets to be floating too far in screen so you can make a more viewer 1 style viewer at the expense of those of us who have been working with Firestorm for a long time now. You broke the hybrid view with the sidebar windows. Moved notifications around, and for what - so we can now put buttons in different places...that's not a flexible interface.
ReplyDeleteI have always been a huge fan of Firestorm - using it since the early beta - but this release is a step back - a step back to the poor interface design choices made by Linden Labs. I know this isn't the Phoenix teams fault entirely - LL have been real arses about forcing compliance with their features, but it is still bad and very problematic.
You bent over backwards to keep V! compatibility - please restore the Hybrid functionality of previous. not an approximation, but the real thing, with notices in the right place releases and chicklets not floating too far into the view.
@Cincia
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that what might be a great viewer to you and a wonderful UI setup might not be for somebody else. Part of the reason Viewer 2 got such a negative reaction was it had almost no options. Don't like the sidebar? Tough, you have no choice. The price for flexibility and configuration options is a more complex setup (especially the first time you do it.)
I highly recommend going to the inworld classes on preference settings at the very least. Yes it's a few hours, but you may find once you understand the settings and what they do, that it doesn't seem quite so overwhelming.
@Chetar Ruby
ReplyDeleteThe UI change was LL's doing. The Phoenix team doesn't write their viewer from scratch. No TPV dev does. They take the base code that LL provides and modify it and add features. I'm sure they'd also prefer that LL didn't drop sudden major changes of the UI on everyone either. I'm actually surprised at just how much the Phoenix team was able to do in such a short time after essentially having to start totally over with their UI development. I suspect part of the reason they were able to is because the FUI actually is a pretty decent base to work from and far easier to deal with than trying to un-sidebar V2 was. I'm sorry if you're one of those who actually liked the sidebar. In typical fashion, LL basically told all of you "Tough beans, the UI is changed again, learn the new one. We'll all hope this is the last major UI change for some time to come.
@Karl:
ReplyDeleteAnd in typical Phoenix/Firestorm fashion, they just follow the lead and won't make a stand for their own awesome hybrid interface they came up with. FUI is a disappointment. FS 4.0.1 is a disappointment. Sorry. I'm going to be migrating away from this viewer as soon as I find something else I like. Just because LL changed something doesn't mean FS has to change it too. Make a stand for your own incredible 3.3 UI. You made something awesome there and you've undid it, just because LL did? BAH.
@ Karl ... you should know your audience before you lecture. I have 6 viewers installed and set up on my computer (Phoe and FS included) and I use each of them for various tasks in my SL. I don't need to spend more time in a class about a single viewer on top of the time it takes to flesh out the options. But I also certainly don't need a Rube Goldberg viewer with batspit crazy numbers of tabs, options, tweaks, skins, styles, and niche' features that slow development and hold back updates.
ReplyDelete@Chetar Ruby
ReplyDeleteActually, LL changing their UI does mean FS has to follow suite. FS has to stay as current as they can to incorporate LL's bug fixes and other feature updates. There is no viable way they could have avoided using FUI so they took it and improved it as much as possible. Once again, they didn't write that hybrid interface from scratch, they took the base LL code and modified it and added too it some. When LL took the sidebar away and introduced FUI, that was where FS was going to go. Like it or not, they didn't have a choice in the matter.
Cincia, it is no more difficult to set up Firestorm than it is to tie one's shoes. It took me perhaps no more than ten minutes to get this latest version set up the way I had the prior one (3.3) - with a few variations, owing to the alterations in the GUI.
ReplyDeleteThe only reason it even took me that long was because I had to track down what I had used for my CameraOffset and FocusOffset ....
I do not know what you mean by a more "streamlined" client ... but apparently, it must have something to do with having various options buried in the Debug menus or otherwise placed within the menu bar (where they do NOT belong ... such a place is for the utterly lazy).
If what you ant is a client which simply functions out of the box ... Might I suggest you stick with the default, Linden Client - or perhaps don't bother with Second Life at all?
Oh - and upon attempting to post this same comment an untold number of times .... I am reminded of why I absolutely HATE all forms of Captcha security.
I have HORRIBLE lag!!
ReplyDeletephoenix we need to be able to use more mesh, if i use a mesh pants, i can't use alpha shoes!
ReplyDeleteor use pants mesh and a blouse..
hope some day they add the "add" more layerss!! please!! :) ty..
I now gone back to Phoenix from the Firestorm, the Notification and IM killed it for me.
ReplyDeleteHi...anyone here figure out how to get Phoenix to run on Win 8?
ReplyDeleteI had the older Phoenix and have the current Firestorm running on it.
Phoenix runs so dang well on win 7 I want to use it on 8...as man it's fast for all my other activities.
Just hunting for ideas...I've tried all the basic things and more..but the new Pnx always hangs and crashes at login....I'm sort of suspecting a media thing...but my efforts haven't fixed it.
@ Atra ... I got it set up fine, I just feel there are too many options and tweaks resulting in a bloated viewer and updates at a snails pace. Remember, everyone is entitled to an opinion, even when they disagree with you. I did enjoy your telling me to leave SL, though. You're so very tolerant of the opinions of others.
ReplyDeleteI have no issues with the Captcha, it works just fine.
@Biondina
ReplyDeleteUnless some other v1 based viewer team figures it out, provides the code, and it's practical to work into Phoenix without breaking something else, it's not happening. If you want a v3 feature near term, try Firestorm or one of the other V3 based viewers.
Cincia, in one of your prior comments you stated that it got to the point where you were spending too much time setting up client programs and not enough time enjoying Second Life - when a client takes no more than five to ten minutes to set up, such a statement as your's is one born of laziness.
ReplyDeleteI tolerate opinions just fine: I don't tolerate people who are so lazy as to want instant gratification.
As for the Captcha, YOU try having worse than 20/400 vision and not being able to make out utterly garbled audio in the audio variation.
Captcha is perfectly fine - provided you're not using a variation which distorts the image/audio to the point where it may as well be worthless.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI found a fix for basic shaders on ati/amd video cards. turn off catalyst ai.
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ReplyDeleteAtra I find it difficult not to respond to your totally noobish comments toward Cincia, who has been in SL for a very long time and whose tact and understanding of people, together with her extensive knowledge of SL, has allowed her to help many over the years. These are positive qualities to which, I must say, I doubt you are able to aspire. Your suggestion that SHE should leave SL was really over the top!
ReplyDeleteI agree with her totally that "the viewer wars," in which LL and the TPV's try to outdo each other with new features for the sake of newness, detracts from a persons enjoyment of SL. While each viewer has something unique to offer, this constant re-doing is a pain in the butt and usually breaks as many good features from a previous version as it fixes or offers new in a newer one. That is not progress, that is stupidity.
One or two releases a year, that actually work, would be a much better approach for LL and the TPV's both to take.
Becca, I've had a Second Life account since 2006 - unless Cincia has had an account from 2005 or earlier, I'd advise you to think a bit before rushing to call my comment "noobish".
ReplyDeleteI frankly don't care what her track record is: I myself was one of the few mentors who actually helped new users. I have quite the extensive understanding of the human mind and have not once failed to properly analyze what a person has written.
Her comments are those of a person who believes taking five to ten minutes to set up a client program is "too much time" - whether she intended to do so or not, she put forth an image of laziness and laziness is not something I condone.
If one is too lazy to spend so little time to set up a client program for ANY service, they should either go with the standard client or - in the event they find THAT takes too long as well - simply leave the service in question.
It is not rocket science.
As for the "Client wars" (no, it is not a 'viewer', it is a client) if Linden Lab actually listened to its user base we would not have these issues.
In the future, stop and think before responding to me as such an utterly thoughtless response is something ELSE that I do not tolerate.
Oh yes, and before you bother trying one of the oldest (and frankly utterly worthless) tactics in the book: I comment here under an E-mail account name. I am not stupid enough to mix my Second Life with my real life nor do I ascribe to the foolish notion that one must use their avatar name when making comments - the avatar is not making any comments, the real human being who controls it IS.
Cincia raises legitimate points. Instead of making a viewer that was modeled on what people actually wanted, the Firestorm developers chose to go with a viewer most SLers find unusable in both layout and functionality. They and their sycophants literally added insult to injury by dissing those of us who raised legit concerns as people "clinging" to "old tech" and demanded that we upgrade our computers or leave SL altogether, even though it's been demonstrated time and again that 1.) the majority of us already use newer computers with good graphics cards and needed RAM, and 2.) the problem is not the user or his or her computer but the viewer itself.
DeleteSince you've been on SL so long, you should know as well as anyone else that when shifting so radically from one GUI to another that is totally different, naturally some are going to have trouble figuring it out. And when people learned that there were viewers using the V1 GUI out there, they downloaded those -- especially once those viewers began incorporating mesh capability and other features previously dismissed as being exclusive to the V2-V3 GUI viewers.
Your condescending, arrogant attitude isn't winning anyone over.
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ReplyDeleteIs there a way to make your head stop moving, your arm not to move, show where you're editing? Also to turn off cross-hairs from people seeing you cammed on them? This is a good update but it's missing some good features I think theses should be added like they were in the latest Firestorm.
ReplyDeleteAvatar > Preferences > Privacy > LookAt ; check/uncheck at will
Delete@Archangel Mortenwold
ReplyDeleteMore accurately, they based Firestorm on a viewer with a UI you personally and a few of your friends find unusable. They had no choice. All TPV's base their viewers on LL's code. The current viewer code has the FUI, thus any viewer based on that code is going to have the FUI as a base.
The usage metrics tend to disagree with you though. More and more are switching to Firestorm away from Phoenix. I consider that a good thing.
I've already dealt with you before Archangel - your assessment of MY attitude is worthless, you make generalized statements with nothing whatsoever to back them up (no, you do not speak for anyone but yourself - stop trying to do otherwise) and now you wish to pretend that a user who believes that five to ten minutes is "too long" is "raising legitimate concerns".
ReplyDeleteAn off the shelf computer is NOT enough to properly run Second Life - this is a FACT and has been demonstrated time and time again.
The way a user reacts to a particular interface is all on the USER, not the INTERFACE. This is a FACT.
I will not state this again Archangel: If you are going to respond to me, you had better do so while sticking to facts, NOT your own opinions.
I will not repeat myself and until you drop your crap, I'm not going to respond to you any further. You are nothing but a waste of my time at best.
Atra, my computer was off the shelf and runs SL on Phoenix with no problems.
ReplyDeleteI allways choose a computer with Nvidia graphic card.
June, Phoenix has been tuned to run on older PCs, much like the other third party version one clients have.
ReplyDeletePresent clients do not run very well on off the shelf PCs - if I may ask ... what's your frame rate and what did the system choose as your graphics settings?
Not an older PC a year old Windows 7 64bit.
ReplyDeleteIt is classed as a Game machine, I doubled its RAM but otherwise as supplied.
FPS hard to answer as when I check allways different due to where I am, highest I think I have seen is 65fps.
It running at setting of graphic at Ultra.
I appreciate what you say as regards PC's with no graphic card and use the motherboard would fit your statement.
I checked in the stores for a PC with a Nvidia card in and would recomend others do, makers seem to put other make in though the AMD one, is it ATI/Radeon in my experience they not as good.
I wonder what happened to Phoenix and Firestorm in their latest versions (1.6.1.1691 and 4.0.1.27000 accordingly)... I get lower fps in phoenix's last version, even than 1.6.0.1600... let me not talk about FS 4.0.1.... awful fps!!! At the same place, with same settings: PH 1691 28 fps max, FS 4.0.1 16 fps max, PH 1600 40-42 fps max, Singularity 1.6.0.3 43-44 fps max, Cool VL 1.26.4.5 41-44 fps max!!! Why this reduce in fps? Even the latest SL client (3.3.0) gives me 38 fps max!!! Well, i'll stick with Cool VL and Phoenix 1600 until there's an improvement! (Because even Firestorm 2.5.2 beta could give 34-36 fps max but FS 4 only 17 fps max? UNACCEPTABLE!!!)
ReplyDelete@Atra Lupis
ReplyDeleteFunny, I'm running the current version of Firestorm on a system I bought off the shelf at Aldi (yes the grocery store) three years ago. It ran it ok before I spent $40 on a video card recently and saw a moderate improvement in framerate and shadow handling
One doesn't need to buy a gamer rig to run SL.
June, that'd be why it can run Second Life: Most off the shelf models are not exactly designed for any kind of gaming at all - and contrary to what Karl has stated, the generic off the shelf types do not run Second Life that well.
ReplyDeleteKarl, you managed to luck out actually - each and every user I have ever talked to that was having severe issues with Second Life has stated that their PC was an off the shelf model - most of them having no clue how to shop for a PC.
First congratulations on the FUI
ReplyDeletebut unfortunately for me FireStorm is not working well on my computer. I will give details of my system and the issues I am facing down there.
My System Specs
MacBook Pro. OSX 10.68 (Up to date)
Processor 2.2 GHz Intel Core i7 Quad Core
RAM 8 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
Graphics AMD Radeon HD 6750M 1GB dedicated memory
HardDisk 500GB - 7200 Rotational
Problems
1- Draw Distance above 48 becomes very choppy on the lowest graphics
2- Depth of Field not functional
3- Shadows not functional
Notes:
The official Second Life viewer is much smoother running on the same machine
I have tried another 3rd party viewer (Not mentioning the name here) and it's performance is much better concerning the Draw distance but the Shadows and Depth of Field not functional as well as the Official SL Viewer.
Bottom Line
I use the previous FS Viewer for Building and Photography (For the depth of field and shadows functioning perfectly there) But all the FS Viewers I have tried so far are not suitable on my computer for gaming or machinima.
Last words
I do like Firestorm much but it is not usable for me as a full time / all time viewer. I use the old version for building and photography but the latest version's FUI is not filling in for the performance issues. I would prefer a more functional viewer than a better looking one since I am into building, photography, machinima and gaming.
This is not criticism as much as it's problem reporting hopefully the next updates will resolve all issues.
yes I do have mac mini intel i7 and same probs and i tried it all but not really smooth performance I can find for mac.
DeleteWell mine is an i5 3.2GHz, I thought i7 was better.
ReplyDeleteI too got 8 GB RAM.
Now mine is Nvidia Graphic Card GeForce GT320, as I have said before I steer clear of any but Nvidia. Having said that this says yours is far better than mine http://www.hwcompare.com/6445/geforce-gt-320-vs-radeon-hd-6750/
OF course I do not mess with Settings of Phoenix which I use I leave as Downloaded, in other words use straight out of the box.
I hope things improve for you Kareem.
Thanks June but it doesn't work on the default out of the box settings. Even a Draw Distance of 64 meters gives me the message (Draw distance is too high) but that's on FireStorm, Phoenix doesn't even have OpenGl working so I stopped using it a while ago.
ReplyDeleteThe real problem is with the AMD Graphics cards somehow it's not solved on some viewers. I was hoping FS would fix it somehow since SL Viewer has already done that in theirs. But as I mentioned before the Shadows and Depth of field are not working there as well but that's Linden's problem.
Kareem, the thing with AMD is ... They are constantly going outside the norm with their hardware configurations and technologies.
ReplyDeleteATI/AMD systems are great for Console gaming (Playstation, Xbox, Gamecube to cite a few) but not so great for PC gaming - this coming from someone who's gone from ATI/AMD to nVidia and Intel ONLY.
ATI Radeon cards are best suited to Power Users who don't mind fussing with their settings per application to get them to work properly.
The Shadow rendering issue is indeed an artifact from the Linden code itself - they broke something they have yet to properly fix.
I'll echo what's been said here. If you have an off the shelf system that's anything close to current and it's got an ATI card or something using shared memory, upgrade to an Nvidia card with discreet memory. There are low power versions of the 9800 and a few others for systems with power supplies that can't handle the newer cards. Nvidia's OpenGL drivers are far better. Consider the $40-$100 cost to do it is less than what a new console game would cost.
ReplyDeleteThe first of your viewers with the perfect mix of the superior v1 look and feel (superior as in: compact, flexible, the right colorscheme), and all the nice things possible since v1 viewers.
ReplyDeleteEasy to setup. Feels like coming home to Phoenix but with the nice goodies of the previous Firestorm.
Nice APRIL FOOL Joke guys... :P
ReplyDeleteThelonius Twig
Virtualban Alex thanks I don't even know how I missed that. I think another thing they need to fix is when someone tp's you, sends you notecards, stuff it doesn't open an IM that's really annoying too. :/ Unless there is a way to fix that too but I've never seen it.
ReplyDeleteHello,
ReplyDeleteCan you fix, please, this problem of textures which dont rezz correctly? Especially skins, layers.... Im not the only one encountering this issue that didnt happen with Phoenix. Im tired to re-bake constantly, to clean my cache, etc. My skin appears constantly blurred, Im not far to give up Firestorm and some friends are already back to Phoenix. It happens only with Firestorm, other viewers are ok.
Nakshydil Resident
never had problems with phoenix and still my fav, trying to get used to firestorm but my avatar never loads, always a poof cloud, ive tried changing my avi, and clearing my cache and rebaking myself but nothing works so far.
ReplyDeletei like the updates (for the most part)
ReplyDeleteit took forfrkenever to get used to the sidebar .. and now its already gone?! grrrr! its a good thing BOTH FS and phoenix are still available, along with several other viewer options out there. even for old computers; chances are good one of the viewers out there will work.
i use phoenix when i need to run two avatars at once, coz FS crashes my graphics card when i try to do that.
so i'm i'm glad they didnt discontinue phoenix (and the kirsten skins for phoenix are gorgeous!)
BUT my friend is unable to play youtube video with FUI (flash error?) and has to use phoenix for that now.
ALL IN ALL , THE PHOENIX TEAM DID A GREAT JOB
How do you change the option to view profiles.. viewing them online. People keep telling me my profile is empty when they view it online.
ReplyDeleteI love Phoenix Viewer. I would use Firestorm, but I just lag way too much when I move my avatar. One problem with Phoenix Viewer is I can't attach two transparent attachments so I can't wear a mesh skirt and shirt. I am avoiding buying mesh clothing because of this. Please fix this.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad to see I'm not the only one having problems with mesh. But I know plenty of people with my version of Phoenix that see mesh clothing with no problem. I've asked if it is a setting that I need to change. I don't like to but when I wear mesh clothing I use the SL viewer.
Delete"you're inventory window will become "Visibly" broken." IT's not "you're" it's "your".
ReplyDeleteMac osx 10.6.8 macbook pro 2.66 8giga ram.
ReplyDeleteLatest Firestorm overheats my mac even at high setting, while the previous version wasn't.
The use of FUI really slows it down.
Please Suggestions!!!!
ReplyDeleteWhen i sign up for an account i`ll be directed to Second life viewer.The problem is that For an account there i only have an Username.
When i try to log in in Phoenix viewer I must have A first and A last name.
Q- How do i do to get the First and Last name for the account in Phoenix viewer?
Well I have a Christian name and a Surname just like RL, the first goes in the first Phoenix box the second goes in the second Phoenix box.
ReplyDeleteYou appear to have 3 names
Now Shake Aspare
Phoenix (even on older versions), gives me since one month:
ReplyDelete-griefed avatar
-missin objects from inventory.
Great yet another UI change. SL starting to feel like myspace...
ReplyDeleteWhy is it you still can not change the default texture when you rez a prim as you can in phoenix? I don't like the wood box or any of the linden default textures. I have one I created just for my prims and have to manually add it. After a year and a half or so of development this seems a bit more than a simple oversight.
ReplyDeleteI have been trying, seriously. For two years now. I can't get used to V2/3-based interfaces. Not only because they were unintuitive to start with, but also because they keep changing. The new FS interfaces that are more Phoenix-like aren't as snappy anymore either. Windlight water looks like milk. Just to name a few of a hundred things I find annoying.
ReplyDeleteMuch, MUCH respect for the programmers who have been putting such great dedication and effort in making FS look more Phoenix-like, but it's not working. Maybe I'm a dinosaur and my muscle memory can't handle anything new anymore. But so many (illogical) interface items keep annoying me. And there are too many of them. I have given up on making notes of them.
Moreover, the new Phoenix has a greyed-out 'Enable VBO Rendering' check box, while it's still enabled in Phoenix 1185. The differences in frame rate are dramatic. (I'm on Mac OS X Lion.) I prefer frame rate over mesh, so, no mesh for me.
If LL ever breaks with V1-based viewers it'll be the end of SL for me.
Arduenn, I agree with you I not like Firestorm and I'am on Phoenix still, and like you if Phoenix and V1 viewers get stopped by Linden it will be goodbye Second Life.
ReplyDeleteIt is a shame we can't tell which viewers people use now, are figures produced to show how many people use which viewer?
Hello my friends:
ReplyDeleteI used to manage very well with the last viewer phoenix 1.5, but this last one, the 1.6 is really a pain.
I don't know if SL is having some trouble, but all I know is since I made this update my second life just makes me cry LOL.
My contacts names are =???... so I will never know who amI talking to. I crash every 5 minutes, and in those minutes I am just searching my inventory, or baking my little avatar. Please give a hand. I have the proper syster to work with, but I am not so sure about Windows Vista...
My laptop is turning off constantly only with SL not any other program. I adored Phoenix and work with it since years.... but please, just let me know how can I fix this please.
Big hugs, and thank you for your job, always trying to do the best for us.
Firestorm crashes why I try to set the log location for chat logs
ReplyDeleteWell I was very wary of FS4 because I wasn't really interested in the FUI and I figured, any changes chasing after LL couldn't be for the better...
ReplyDeleteEventually upgraded in hopes of wringing out the most of my performance so I could manage the Fantasy Faire, and have to say, I'm really relieved and grateful that you have managed to keep the UI pretty much the same as it was in FS3! I have heard a lot of bad about the LL viewer from friends forced to use it, so ty for doing things FS style - I'm just glad it works on my computer!
Incidentally, what would be great is if you could make the photo window reduce even further so that all the extra info can be hidden - once you've set where you're saving files, there's no need to keep that bit open, and when wandering around looking at pretty things to snap, you want as much room on the screen as possible! Every menu seems to get bigger and bigger with each update... ;)
Okay... now I've tried out the latest release of Firefox for more than a month, but back on Phoenix 1.5 again.
ReplyDeleteWhy?
Too many crashes, can't TP anywhere whitout crashing, some sculpies doesn't rez properly, not to talk about alpha textures, really awful. Don't get as good FPS as on Phoenix. Firefox is a laggy viewer.
But I do like the new FUI and I love that you can add several makeups. But with so many crashes I find Firestorm impossible to use at this time. So all mesh objects looks like blobs again. :-/
Linden Labs viewer 2 or 3 are not an option.
Thank you all on the Firestorm team, I really appreciate all the work you do and I know it's still a Beta.
Same problems for myself and RL partner as well. Only complaint I have with Pheonix is the missing add ability for multiple tatoos and alpha layers. Oh and would love a sidebar as well. I'd have done firefox. Just tried a full uninstall and reinstall and STILL crashes TP errors and seriously bugged all around IMHO.
DeleteI'm on current release of pheonix and firestorm and frankly this is to a point of not being able to log in as it's so bad.
very sad that my sidebar/tabs are not offered any longer. I hated when LL took the feature away in Oct/Nov so i stopped using LL viewer and went to firestorm not to find firesdtorm isnt using it now either. I am sure there is a way to incorporate it back..so pls pls pls think of re-adding tabs.
ReplyDeletethanks and i do like the other features
No news about the an upcoming update? I am dealing with the sound BUG for 2 months! We really need hear sounds, isnt like a small bug, is a really big one and I am really surprised how no one noticed before releasing this version. And everyone have it, isnt like those bugs that only affects some portions of users.
ReplyDeleteSo please, at least do a temprary fix or something. I even saw the code to fix the bug, but I dont know how to compile stuff, I am not programmer. Could be too hard to apply the patch and post the link of that fix in the blog so everyone can fix that silly bug? Im sure that everyone would be really glad.
@ Anna
ReplyDeleteTutorial: Mimic Sidebar in Firestorm FUI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hromb5aFfss
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ReplyDeleteHope your wonderful team is considering changing the look/icon layout of Phoenix and also incorporating an AO Overrider (if not already and I just don't know where it is) as in the Firestorm version. (fingers crossed)
ReplyDeleteIf you mean
ReplyDeleteShift-ctrl-o
please do not mess with it is fine for me as it is now.
Can't get Phoenix to open on my computer this evening, gets to loggin screen then dissappears, contacted my friend and hers is the same, have Linden cut Phoenix off?
ReplyDeleteWhy the installer has not been remade?
ReplyDeleteI am a Finn, with Finnish language Windows and installer STILL offers me some mumble jumble I presume is Danish.
NEVER make automated language selection that defaults to anything but English unless user can easily override it.
I have been using the Phoenix Firestorm viewer for several months now and it is the best I really like it.... however for the last 3 days I can not get the viewer to rezz my avatar .... this is sooo frustrating I have NO PROBLEMS with the Phoenix or the Sl Viewer its just the Firestorm that is not working right .... anyone have an idea why or having the same problem as me ???? This is so frustrating I am a designer and I need to see my Avatar to work !!!! Please is there anyone out there that can help with this problem??
ReplyDeleteI have been using Phoenix for years and love it. BUT, I cannot see mesh clothing. I have version 1.6.1.1691 and have looked everywhere but can't figure it out. Please help me. I love the new mesh clothing..
ReplyDeleteAll, for Firestorm and Phoenix (or any other viewer)I may have found a solution to the problems of crashing. Or at least improved it quite a bit.
ReplyDeletehttp://support.microsoft.com/kb/2665946#FixItForMeAlways
Follow that link. There's a patch that isn't part of MS update that improves the communication between GPU and CPU. I installed this today after finding it and have been pretty stable since. So I apologize for my complaints that were related to crashing in prior post. It appears it's MS not necessarily Phoenix/Firestorm or SL.