Tuesday, 2 August 2011

Phoenix Maintenance Update

Keeping to our promise of maintaining and continuing to release Phoenix updates we offer you Phoenix Viewer While this is not a major release it does offer some fixes against malicious crashers being used on the grid, lots of other fixes and comes with a cool new feature or two. All new features in this Phoenix release will of course also be present in our next Firestorm Release coming soon!. The change log for this Phoenix update can be found here. We remind you that it is always important to do a clean install, instructions here. 

On another note I wanted to take this opportunity to crush a few misconceptions and rumors that have been going around. While it is true that V1 based viewers are nearing the end of their shelf life, this is not because LL will be 'blocking' them. LL will NOT be blocking Phoenix or other V1 viewers. V1 viewers like Phoenix will not be blocked, rather they will begin to break as LL rolls out new features that these viewers cannot accommodate.

Mesh objects is the beginning of both a bright new future in realism in Second Life, and the end for these viewers. I took some time the other day to navigate around some of the Mesh Sandboxes while on both the LL mesh viewer and Phoenix Viewer, took some snapshot comparisons to demonstrate to you what I mean by "breaking v1 viewers". In the following link you will see on the left hand side what mesh objects look like on a non mesh viewer vs the pictures on the right of the mesh objects as they should display. See the difference here.

As mesh becomes more and more popular, and I'm sure it will.. more and more people will be selling, buying, making and using mesh in their daily sl lives. As the usage increases, the world will look more and more broken for Phoenix and other V1 users. All is not lost! in fact I was very impressed at the realism of mesh and the quality of mesh objects, it's very cool! But with improvement comes change and with change comes growing pains. In the long term though this is a great new era in both viewer development and realism in Second Life. While many don't like the interface in viewer 2, the code itself is far more flexible and robust than V1 offering so many other possibilities.

Firestorm Viewer will support mesh objects very soon as we work to merge up to LL's latest code. There are also one or two Third Party Viewers who are trying to backport mesh capability into the V1 code base and if they succeed that's great! But it's important to remember that mesh is really just the beginning of things to come, great new features, immersion, functionality, etc.. but which won't work on a V1 based viewer. Enjoy Phoenix while you can but we certainly encourage you to try and get used to Firestorm in your spare time. We released a video a few weeks ago showing just how easy it is to make Firestorm more like Phoenix. Have a watch!

Jessica Lyon
Project Manager
Phoenix Viewer Project, Inc


  1. While I prefectly understand how meshes will kill V1 viewers, what I utternly can't stand is the V2 interface, even less the web profiles "improvement" (to say so).
    I know these are not your choices, yet, I will use phoenix until forced otherwise, simply because I can't stand V2 viewers. I hope that in the meanwhile you will be able to make something acceptable from the V2 codebase. I am not saying you are doing wrong, what I am saying is what you started for is totally wrong - not your fault. Many kudos and good luck

  2. Thank you Phoenix Team for this Release, sadly there are still some bugs that wasn't fixt as the Realease came out.

    for information:



    hopefully you will fix it for selfcompiler if this was the last Official Realease.

  3. I'm so happy to have an alternate viewer option, so thank you!
    With Firestorm, is there anyway to have the icons in inventory look like V1? I find most difficult to get used to.

  4. i'm TRYING to get used to Firestorm, if the webkit crash can be fixed :( Right now it crashes for me as soon as I load the viewer, and then i'm stuck... search does not work, some group chats wont work... we've been goign back and forth on JIRA for a couple of weeks now (thank you Whirly), I've even submited logs! HELP!

  5. Both Singularity and Cool VL Viewer are in the final stages of having mesh implemented. It is wrong to think V1 and mesh are mutually exclusive. It might be that Phoenix will be left behind, but there sure will be mesh capable V1 viewers pretty soon.

  6. the media_plugin_webkit failure persists in the same as it has been since every release since after 373. The web is getting so packed with blogs, forum posts, comments and jiras about it that it's harder than ever to find a usable solution.

  7. Integrated Web pages, lack of viewer customization abilities, Interface, assbackward ways to get to things and the freeze / crashes on login. Who the hell uses V2, and how can they stand it? Firestorm of course is by far better then V2, but still much is missing. Keep up the good work, we've got much to do, and much more for the future.

  8. Question: With the Singularity development team working to incorporate mesh while preserving the Viewer 1 user interface, why not simply do what they did from the start and work to make Viewer 1 user interface on top of the code base for Viewer 2?

  9. I agree with your post. I've picked it up, used it, gotten used to it. But I need the protections the V1 client offers before I can switch. I need spam protection. Besides, you haven't enabled mesh yet. So there's no reason to switch and every reason to stay till that happens.

  10. I just read some of the comments, and I think I will switch to Singularity... Since they are doing what I been thinking about, viewer 1 standard with viewer 2 capability without all the other stuff!

  11. Thanks for the update, look forward to the next release of Firestorm too.

    I have mostly changed to Firestorm use now, except for times when I am forced into mouse look by various restraints. I have discovered that V2 will in fact show chat/IM window/s while in mouse look, by way of clicking on an IM pop-up when they come in, so it can be done! All I need now is a way to open it independently of receiving an IM first. You guys get that working and I'd pretty much be one of the "converted" :) - fingers crossed for the next release

  12. A few days ago before the new update of phoenix viewer 1185 I went on phoenix viewer and nothing was rezzing correctly for me, everything were grey bubbles. Just now went on the new updated version 1185 and the same thing.......also very much lag.

  13. My firestorm update beta2 wont let me log in anymore wont let me get past connecting to world. or loading world something about world. right before downloading clothing.. it just freezes up on me. i have firestorm mac. when will there be a new firestorm update?

  14. So I finally downloaded Firestorm, having been a Phoenix use and Emerald before that and after getting most of the annoying things altered (thanks to the wonderful video) I headed off to a sim where some friends on mine have been playing with mesh.

    Only I couldn't see it.

    Isn't Firestorm supposed to be Viewer 2 compatible?

  15. Just tried to Teleport people to me via their profiles, the button is dead. I cannot Teleport friends to me now!!!

  16. Sorry, the above was for Phoenix Viewer

  17. In answer to Edward Pearse, Firestorm is not yet mesh compatible. Linden Labs has its own beta viewer for mesh users, but so far Firestorm does not yet have that capability. If you want to see mesh right now, chances are you'll have to install Kirsten's Viewer (another Viewer 2 clone) or Linden labs' default viewer, neither of which is a pleasant option if you want your computer to run Second Life without extreme lag, glitches, and crashes more regular than you'd be on a diet of bran flakes and apple juice.

    Linden labs is slowly but steadily breaking Viewer 1, which I suspect is why Phoenix and other viewers are experiencing so much trouble lately. For instance, a couple of months ago I started noticing a new problem which has yet to even be brought up: inexplicable de-rendering of worn (and sometimes even in-world) prims requiring right-clicking on the object in order to bring it back to full resolution. Unfortunately, the de-rendering keeps happening.

    Linden labs is shooting itself in the proverbial foot by effectively blocking Viewer 1 — and make no mistake, people; making Viewer 1 so broken that it can't function fully or properly has the same effect as if the viewer was being blocked. The idea is to force people onto Viewer 2, which was a horrible mistake from its very inception. There was nothing wrong with Viewer 1, and updates could have continued to be done for that viewer so as to bring it in line with current computer software technology. Instead, Linden labs made the unwise decision to contract out its new viewer project to a foreign company that had no idea about Second Life, and compounded the error by trying to force everyone else to adopt its inferior product as a condition of using their virtual world.

    The result, of course, will probably be an increasing exodus to other grids as they become more stable and retain user friendliness. (InWorldz, for example, is becoming one such alternative to SL.) People can trot out suspect polls all they want to justify sticking with bad decisions, but as others continue to offer viable alternatives, more people will continue to go to them.

  18. After updating to I now get this error when trying to launch the program:

    "The application failed to initialize properly (0x0000142). Click OK to terminate the application."

    Will revert to the prior version until a fix is found.

  19. An update to my previous comment,

    Removing the old install folder before running the installer seemed to fix the issue. I hadn't anticipated having to do that, since it was never an issue before. I guess it was something in the cache.

    tl;dr If you have the same error I did try doing a fresh install.

  20. As a former devotee of Emerald,and now Phoenix,all I can say to the team is...THANK YOU! Please ignore every flamer and bear in mind that there are many of us who are extremely grateful for your efforts. Sincerely and very gratefully,Anoushka Leborski.

  21. I love firestorm.... several months ago i "forced" myself to get used to the v2 interface by using LL's viewer... it took over a week but then i started to like it... but crashed when in a crowded sim or taking pics. But since I'm using Firestorm i crash way less and can't take pics with almost no crashing. So i know people hate V2... but I used to hate it too... it was stupid and complicated... but now i dont mind it ... and i cant find thigns in a V1 viewer anymore LOL... so just try it :D it's what's coming and better to get used now that you still can use both.. than later when you don't have an option, cause you will be more against it that now.... and it will take you longer to figure it out!

    <3 Leah

  22. I want to know if there is a way to turn off the Windlight transition effects... i don't like how long it takes to toggle through the different windlight presets

  23. I used Firestorm for several Months . However with Zero Mesh Support and No Mesh uploading ability . In a Mesh world this is a deal breaker for me . I've switched to Kirsten's S21(9) , while I do miss RLV and the lack of phoenix build tools . I do Enjoy mesh an creating mesh content .

    With Kirsten's now having Pie menu's , It's made it a lot easier for other mesh builders who prefer the viewer one style pie menus to using a Viewer two client .

    Now everyone's known that mesh has been coming for a long time . Kirsten's has a team of like two people and has Mesh already ... Firestorm has over 20 people per one the June office hours shows , and still does not have mesh ??????

    I've also found that the mesh code base the 2.8.3 provides my computer with a much better Frame rate then currently offered in Firestorm.

    I'm also very disappointed that firestorms been mired in 2.5 code since the spring . several months later it's still 2.5 ... If the team was truly dedicated to being a V2 or even a V2 hybrid the code base should be at least 2.6.x

    An continuing to pander to a viewer one viewer that's got reduced functionality and will continue to have a reduced viability in the long term is silly . An taking away valuable development time and resources for developing Firestorm .

    The Firestorm client offered a lot of hope for those builders who enjoyed the phoenix build set and in a mesh world those are no longer available at this current time .

    If Firestorm ever gets around to Mesh some of the more established content creators who have left phoenix and firestorm for a Mesh viewer , may return .

    This isn't intended to flame or slag Firestorm , It's just the reality of it from frustrated builders who had hoped that Firestorm would have made Mesh have more relevance in there features list then spell check, an other trivial functions less then 10% of the user base bother with.

  24. Has the Phoenix team decided yet if they'll implement such a backport if it does happen? I know they originally said they wouldn't for physics, then changed their minds, so I figure it's worth asking ^^ Love the work y'all do!

  25. It looks like you removed the post where you claimed inside knowledge about them disabling server functions that viewer 1 requires. I was tired of so many people quoting that all the time without any proof to back up the claim besides that it was posted here. If you have any proof then please post it, otherwise I'm going to trust you less when I have to switch from Snowglobe eventually. It looks like Singularity is going to be the best option at this point, unless you re-examine why you're working on these projects in the first place and care about the interface more than anything else. Claiming that we need to get used to whatever bones you throw us makes you no better than Linden Lab.

    With all that said, I am still following the Firestorm project closely and hoping that it will have what people need when the time comes. If you make sure that it has what creators need, especially for scripting, then you will have the superior viewer. Just remember that people don't work on anything in a vacuum, they need to be able to read local chat, respond to IMs, have more than one profile open and be able to check their friends list at the same time without it being a hassle or too much of a distraction. It's because of these requirements that the viewer 1 interface is superior in every way for people who need to get things done.

    The viewer 1 interface is the most important thing. Being able to have new features in a viewer that is much less usable is pointless. Please make sure that Firestorm has the complete viewer 1 interface that people need without any trace of Snowstorm. If we could use the Snowstorm interface for daily tasks then we would already be using Viewer 2.

    Please remember why we're all here: Viewer 2 is not usable for the people who build Second Life and Linden Lab doesn't care.

  26. You know what?
    I use phoenix, but i didnt see any reply yet to the only rproblem that makes me not use firestorm.
    The font used when typing on local or Im, is impossible to be readed!
    And discriminating ppl due to their lack of sight, thats a real bad start!

  27. Thank you! It may be stubborn but I will use Phoenix 'till the end of time...or the start of the mesh era at least. I'm trying to get used to Firestorm but I can see it's gonna take awhile. It's way better than V2, of course! It's not all crowded with those darn windows and bars (makes me feel a bit claustrophobic...). It does seem to be little space on the bar bellow, as it's not a double bar like the one V1 viewers have...and the search doesn't seem to work for me. I'm not sure if that's my computer or what. Apparently it works one day and the next it doesn't. But, alas, can't have it all...it's gonna take awhile, like I said, but I'll try to get used to it. I don't wanna miss out on the mesh fun!

  28. Do you guys plan on adding a feature to disable group chats without also disabling notices, like Singularity now has. Please add this since now I'm using singularity just because it has that feature and phoenix does not.

  29. The majority of veteran Phoenix users seem to use it due to hatred of the v2 interface.

    Include me.

    Is there any way that Firestorm can be customised to give a v1 look and feel?

    If this was so - it would be THE KILLER BROWSER, bar none.

  30. serious issue with your update. My computer has 2 accounts on SL belonging to 2 separate people. After this update, an IM from a customer sent to me (remington) was sent to the other account on the computer running phoenix, belonging to the other person. No harm done, but that is a very uncool bug. Please investigate.

  31. This comment has been removed by the author.

  32. I think something has been broken in this latest update. Phoenix crashes quite often now, and it wasn't doing that with the previous version.

    Windows 7 error:
    "Display driver amdkmdap stopped responding and has successfully recovered."

    Despite what the error message says, I have to quit Phoenix and restart it for anything to work.

    The only thing that changed was the (clean) installation of the latest version of Phoenix; no other changes to my system.

  33. If the v2 platform is so much more robust, then why is firestorm lacking so many phoenix features?

  34. I would still like an answer to this pelase...
    Are there any plans to include the button that is currently bottom right on the phoenix viewer that includes Bandwidth, DD, Max avatars, particles, LOD and the windlight pre sets?
    I find this extremely helpful, for one if im in a laggy sim i can drop my DD and max avatars quickly, without going into prefs, plus changing windlight pre sets is quicker than constantly havign to change them via environment settings.
    That, along with radar and area search, is the main reason i prefer phoenix.

  35. OK I have tried many time to sort this issue, in-world and out. This is by way of a "Last Ditch" attempt.
    The Phoenix Website is having major issues in the UK. In currently unable to reset my password, probably due to time-outs, but as a result I can not access the JIRA. When I request a reset the email arrives very quickly, so I don't know what that might indicate. Please, Phoenix Team, get this sorted. Talk to whoever is blocking this line and get it cleared. Your European users, or some of them are losing patience.

  36. I just wish the Firestorm viewer would offer the same as Phoenix when saving a texture... option to save as png or tga. That was absolute brilliance and saved me so much time as a builder.

  37. getting the hang of firestorm and i really like it now i have V1'd it suggest you release it with a V1 style set-up and offer the V2 style customising. Most people installing Firestorm are phoenix lovers like me. Also make the chat bar bigger to start with a lot of people dont realise you can resize it.

    All in all awesome job guys keep it up

  38. Sorry..but some of us have no choice but to stick with V1 - we can't afford new computers and aren't computer savvy enough to replace parts more cheaply. Some of our computers simply won't handle V2. I may be a free account..but I create content and help several groups alot!! but i'm expendable in the brave new world to come..and I don't think i'm alone. You talk like its all a matter of choice..its not.

  39. There comes a time when the bar has to be raised on the minimum system to allow for new features. I give LL credit that they've kept the bar so low. It's still pretty low even with requiring SSE2. Most systems sold in the last decade have that. I'm sorry for those who can't afford an upgrade, but that's how it goes.

  40. look i;m going to be perfectly and completely honest fire storm is complete bullshit. it was never started as a v2 based project now a few of you are ram rodding for viewer 2 9 percentile of the peopl who use and love phoenix with all its tremendous fuck ups!!!! do so because we abhor viewer 2 for the classic linden lab gang bang that it is i dont know much coding but i do know enough to know that is is completely feasible to re write the "v1" code base to accept "mesh" which is barely used in sl because 60-80 percent of the population of sl couldn't wipe there asses with both hands and a map.. none the less actively engage in content development. yes mesh allows certain thing's to be done easy esp baked textureing but when most people use ultra low settings wtf does it matter I cant see radically changing something to fall in line for a few "elitist" assholes! just like good old emerald "green viewer" allowed 2 attachment points per slot that v1 didn't it has always been about being different from ll not going along with there spoon fed bullshit and lies. tragic fucking epic fail ps fire that tosser "lord" greg only thing that titwank is lord of is buggering little juvenile boys..

  41. Oh Dear

    A new boy has learned some naughty words.
    On a serious note, "Karl" suggests that if one cannot afford to upgrade "that's just how it goes". Now once upon a time we all had to accept the premis that we adapt or die. So now the more wealthy can tell us to go and die? We no longer accept that polemic. Why should we? We helped build that world and I'm damned if I'll stand by and give it to some overprivileged nerd. There are a lot of holes appearing in the Phoenix boat, Mesh and its companions are only one aspect of many ways in which the Phoenix machine is not delivering what many of its loyal (myself included) supporters wanted.
    Current LLv2 code is at 2.8.x Firestorm is stil 2.5.x. How come?

  42. The very main problem I have with mesh
    It's going to horribly kill off people who like to mod together their own avi's :c

    or mod just about anything else if it's all one entire item ;n;

  43. OK nobody will need to use meshes, so don't fear , just port the mesh feature for those who want to wear them can render properly for 80 pct of sl population that uses v1 and will be using them for long, if not phoenix, well

  44. Any news on an ETA for the mesh compatible Firestorm release?

    I bought some mesh clothing a couple of days ago and I love it, but to see it I was forced back on to LL's latest viewer and the kindest thing I can say about it is that it's utter junk! I can't TP, things won't rez and it freezes up every time I hit a button, folder or item. If I go anywhere crowded I just crash and to make things worse, no one sees me right because no one else is dumb enough to be running on Viewer 2/3! There is no way I can continue to use the LL viewer.

  45. My biggest single issue with the new Firestorm beta viewer is the absence of ambient wind. Thus I am in a dead SL unless i move around or something else makes noise. Over the five years I've been there, I've learned that the ambient wind sound is an absolute essential for the "feel" of actually being in SL. So at this point, I'm still clinging to Phoenix.

  46. Meshes wont kill V1 viewers if the creators continue to update there viewers. adding the new inventory types, and message types, and adding the render code and libraries for mesh are not simple however it is doable and a few of us run V1 clients with mesh enabled... My view is that you've reached a stale limitation of fixing phoenix with all its memory leaks and other problems and have decided to hop on the 2.0 band wagon.

    I feel its wrong that you lie to people however just because you don't want to continue with a V1 code base. The statement should read more like -> Those who have decided to update there viewer source with mesh code will continue to survive. Those like phoenix viewer who have decided to move to 2.0 code will start to fail and become unusable down the road.Just sayin.

  47. I agree with previous comment regarding the new V2 interface. It is the most unintuitive and hard to figure out where the options and features are. Once you find them, you left with a question: "WHY?..".
    I understand that new exiting features such as Mesh and up to 64m prims came to our lifes, but why this excitement should be spoiled the new worthless V2 interface?
    I think that Phoenix team should have shown more integrity of not following the misleading SL Viewer2.

  48. I attempted to use firestorm for a week. well i didnt even manage to keep it installed for 30 mins after i logged in everything was glitching and stuttering. I get 65fps in even the most resource hungry games and 2fps in firestorm.. WTF.. Thats even on the lowest graphical settings. In phoenix i get a consistant 63fps on the highest setting even in overly populated sims.

    People claim mesh is the newest hotest thing, maybe so but I personally can see alot of people leaving SL and not coming back. Yeah v2 viewers are easy to learn is thats all you have ever known. But for us oldies change and the sheer pointlessness of the v2 interface and usage is has started to make me reconsider my time on sl.

    Ive used phoenix ever since emerald died. this could be my final months on sl unless something drastic is done. Hell id settle for firestorm to release a skin to make it look and feel exactly the same as phoenix and lose all the crap that makes the viewer lag and glitch.

    If its not broken why fix it. SL seems to do this alot. They fixed the group chat lag leading upto the SL8B, then a new patch was released soon after that brought the chat lag back. Then they go play with market place and sure enough they break it. V1 has worked 100% for most users. Why decommission something that has worked wonders to monopolize on the market?


  49. Please make some clone of Firestorm with V1 UI (maybe Phoenix could be the right name for it... Old name, new version, old UI, new possibilities...).

    I am glad because of meshes in SL, but I dislike V2 "tray notifications", a lot of icons and colors in chat and IM windows, I dislike sidebar (the worst thing ever). Simply: I dislike 4-5 clicks (in V2/Firestorm) instead of 1-2 clicks (in V1/Phoenix).

    So I hope that you'll make a real alternative client for us, who are very satisfied with Phoenix's UI.

  50. For me the firestorm viewer is already much better than the regular V2 (or V3 now) all my thanks go the team. I still wish some of the annoying V2 "feature" will be corrected by the firestorm team over time like the way to small notifications, and automatically opening of received textures/notecards/landmarks.
    Oh, and I still miss some of Phoenix features, but I expect those to be added soon.

    For people who want to stick with V1 type of viewer, Henri Beauchamp Cool VL Viewer v1.26.1 already includes mesh support and is based on Snowglobe viewer v1.4.2.
    I guess sooner or later, the Phoenix team will end up merging that port into Phoenix code...
    In the mean time you can find it here: http://sldev.free.fr/

  51. i need the new Features (like Mesh) in OS X 10.4 !!!!


    " Meshes are what prims and sculpted prims were to UV layers in the past: a nice adition to make your avatar look better. The way they are made at the moment is limiting their use and old build ways still have their place in Second Life.

    Finally, this is what you will look like while wearing meshes for everyone who is not using the last 3.0 viewer version. Seeing how people have resisted the transition to version 2.0 viewer and a lot are still running on old viewers, think about it twice before moving around with mesh clothes or avatars. To me, if Linden Labs does not force everyone to use the new viewer or a compatible 3rd party viewer, this will be the last and main limitiation to the use of meshes. Seeing the numerous crashes and the lag I have using official viewer, this won’t be the case before long.

  52. I think that V1 code is the best, as quality and layout.
    Many viewers as cool viewer and astra viewer based on V1 code, are able to support mesh.
    If phoenix will not support it (mesh), it will lost many users.
    The future is "put features of viewer 2 into viewer 1 code".
    Firestorm is only viewer2 with different layout.

  53. I can't help it. I am sorry. I have spent much time getting used to Firestorm as I figured it to be the lesser of the evils. I absolutely refuse to use LLs viewer...period. It's crap! So after all the suffering trying to get used to Firestorm and making it look as much like Phoenix as I possibly can, I think I am ready for mesh.

    Then...mesh comes to the grid and low and behold! I am still waiting because Firestorm isn't mesh compliant yet! Why did I even bother! I loaded V3 and Kirsten's to see mesh and OMG! They were so bad, I barely lasted long enough to see a mesh object.

    That being said, how much longer do we have to wait? All this wheel re-inventing is for the birds. I would love to choke the turkey that came up with the V2/V3 interface that started all this mess!

  54. Firestorm is really nice but its lagging out worse then v1. and everytime it starts to lag the screem blacks out... its not my computer because on any other veiwer its a beast at loading everything real well and i never have lag on phoenix. and also things tend to be all gray around me house trees etc...no matter how i adjust settings its all like that. so if you can keep fixing the bugs i will be highly greatful

  55. People are so right. We don't need this V2 Mess(h) from Lindens. What people need and want was never important for Lindens. I hope you from Phoenix will listen to your people and try as other V1 viewers to make Phoenix Mesh compatible. What I sincerely hope and what happened before with other projects of Lindens is that Mesh and V2 will be shattered and pulled back. What we need is a good working Phoenix V1 as it always did or a firestorm with Phoenix look, not the childrentoy look from V2. Not all people have a brand new pc or are financially abel to get all wizzkid features that are usually only reserved for a small group of people. But as Lindens have done always, choose the minority over the rest and destroy what works well.Keep your good work up Phoenix team and dont let yourself get overshadowed by dictatorial communist methods of the Lindens

  56. I understand that there is still a great fondness amongst most people for Phoenix and the old Viewer 1 interface and - if I'm totally honest - I share that opinion, but like someone else has said, I share that problem of the derendering of worn prims if I use Phoenix, so I was forced to use either Viewer 2 or Firestorm. Sticking to Phoenix is not an option for many of us, no matter how much we love and miss it's interface.

    A lot of folks have been saying that people will ignore mesh, but that's not the case.

    When sculpty prims arrived, it took a while for them to be incorporated into clothes. If I remember rightly, Last Call/Dazzle were early users with some very odd but interesting sculpted sleeves and boot cuffs, but other designers took months before embracing sculpts.

    This doesn't seem to be the case with mesh. Several designers I buy clothes from are now shifting their emphasis to mesh and I strongly suspect that the Coco clearance sale is in preparation of changing all the items there to mesh (which may be a good thing as many of the sculpted clothes from Coco are more complex than the sculpty system allows for). What is more, mesh has been here for less that 2 weeks, yet the modelling agency my friend works for has been hired to do a showcase event of mesh clothes. She's cursing having to use Viewer 3, but because she has to do the show, she's also having to stick with Viewer 3 to get used to the damned thing. And this is what I'm increasingly seeing here - people switching from Phoenix or Firestrom to Viewer 3 just so they can use mesh, or so they can see the people wearing mesh rather than bodies with invisible bits and a huge torus floating next to them.

    Fans of Firestorm want to stick it out and wait for the mesh version of Firestorm, but as mesh clothes and build items become more popular, they are going to have to switch to another viewer that supports mesh.

    I believed that Firestorm would be on the ball with this and expected a mesh version of Firestorm within three or four days of the release of mesh, but there's not a word of an ETA.

    I constantly advise people who post viewer problems on Yahoo Answers to switch to Firestorm, but already, two have come back to me in the past week to say they can't use mesh with Firestorm and are switching back to the Linden viewer.

    I know you are under a lot of pressure to make the next Firestorm release look exactly like Phoenix and if you don't there will be a bunch of idiots calling you every name under the sun. I applaud your effrorts to try and make Firestorm look as close to the V1 interface as you can, but you really do need to get a working mesh version of Firestorm out there for us to use in the meantime.

  57. Hmmm... The current Firestorm beta has been released on July 5. I bet with the arrival of mesh now the Firestorm dev team are much pressed to step on it... If there is no mesh-compatible Firestorm release within the next two weeks, many people will switch to the loathed Linden viewer, grinding their teeth, if I am not much mistaken.

  58. soon it must be all mesh-compatible, bc LL servers and other bugs, if not compatible

  59. To be honest, V2 inteface sucks and it heavily reduces rendering frame rates. This is the only factor i dislike of v2 interface based viewers. If this can be fixed.. Great. if not.. I will have to find a decent modified viewer that has the v1 interface and supports mesh uploading etc.. PS phoenix devs, good job with making firestorms v2 interface as comfortable as possible just increase the rendering performance!! thanks!

  60. build tool fuxd up....using 1050 still...keep up the hard work...danke

  61. When phoenix;s time is up it will be time to switch to a different SLV1 style viewer.. I too HATE SLV2 with a passion.. The makers of Phoenix missed the mark on this one.. and telling the players to update theor machines? look around we are in a ressession.. My pc far exceeds the system requirements of SL and SLV2 still causes inv issues, crashes, lock ups, ect.

    Phoenix based on the SLV1 platform rocked! and was sold on the first tryout.. So alas at the end of the Phoenix run I WILL switch to a different SLV1 3rd party viewer..

    Thanks for your efforts Firestorm creators, BUT NO THANKS !! ;-)

  62. I, like others, am much afraid that it is wishful thinking to assume that V1-based TPVs will work forever or even for a considerable stretch of time in the future. Either Linden Lab will deliberately block them when they think they can do so without losing too many users because there are enough V2-based TPV-alternatives then which people who loathe the Linden V2/3 viewer can use, or the V1-based viewers will just get incompatible to the server software little by little and will thus be severely crippled in functionality until they become simply unusable. I expect the whole thing to become a take-it-or-leave-it matter of the most basic kind: one either stays in Second Life and works with which is at hand or one simply leaves and seeks another pastime on the net. There are enough alternatives. Even other grids like Second Life, for all I know (albeit I haven’t explored in that direction myself).

    And just keep in mind what happened to Emerald, the predecessor of Phoenix: Many thought the Emerald user-base would be too big for Linden Lab to ditch the viewer. They did it all the same, and without damage to their business, for all I know.

    Another word on hardware requirements: I don’t think Linden Lab do greatly care about those who can’t afford the appropriate hardware to run the current viewers properly (or at all, for that matter) and who prolly won’t bring RL-money into Second Life anyway. Linden Lab are running a business which is meant to earn them money, they are not running a charity. It’s astounding anyway that one can still play Second Life with a free membership and without spending money inworld at all. Even with a decent avatar if one knows where to look for the nice store gifts or other high-quality freebies.

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  64. GLYST- ROKST- DEDST...it's all the same with DYST and PHOCKST with the QUEEN.
    And since everybody has divulged MP is a PEDOOHILE, the entire gig is up about " SS".
    STING- LOWE, included.
    It's all about LAPRAP and the STARZ.
    And all the RIZAFF and FF to go with EF and SOGERE.